US Charges Citizens To Evac From Lebanon
Un-fucking-believable!
The Department of State reminds American citizens that the U.S. government does not provide no-cost transportation but does have the authority to provide repatriation loans to those in financial need. For the portion of your trip directly handled by the U.S. Government we will ask you to sign a promissory note and we will bill you at a later date. In a subsequent message, when we have specific details about the transporation arrangments, we will inform you about the costs you will incur. We will also work with commercial aircraft to ensure that they have adequate flights to help you depart Cyprus and connect to your final destination.
The Department of State continues to work around the clock and will continue to send updates as appropriate. [“Lebanon Situation Update - July 15, 2006″ (Embassy of the United States Beirut, Lebanon)]
So, if you’re an American citizen and you’re in need of help, be sure to have your credit card handy. Doesn’t it make you feel warm and fuzzy? I mean I was pissed off because the US waited until yesterday to start rescuing people from the area after Israel started bombing Lebanon — an extreme overreaction, in my opinion, to the original offense. People are dying and the US is charging people who knows how much to get out — isn’t this something we would call a criminal or at least questionable act if any individual or company tried it?
Hat Tip: State of the Qusan.
tags: Lebanon, Israel, U.S. Embassy, Beirut
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on July 17, 2006 at 8:38 pm
Big Dog said:
You have just confirmed my latest post.
First of all, Israel did not over react. They have been getting attacked by rockets for years. They pulled out of Lebanon and Gaza in accordance with UN resolution. Lebanon did not disarm Hezbollah like they were supposed to in accordance with the same resolution. Then, they were invaded and some of their soldiers were killed and kidnapped. How would the US react if Canada or Mexico was lobbing rockets in on a daily basis? If you want to blame anyone, blame Hezbollah and Hamas. Israel told them give us our soldiers back and we will not attack. Hezbollah and Hamas said no so they got what they deserved.
As for the State Department. None of the people being evacuated are Federal employees working there for the government. They are people who paid to go there. You ask if it would be a crime if a private company discharged them. Let me ask you, if the airport was open and flights were leaving there would it be a crime for an airline to charge people for tickets to leave? Of course not. Those folks are there of their own free will. They can evacuate or they can stay. The government is going in and getting them for which they should be grateful. The government will charge them for the transport out.
I see nothing wrong with this. Did the government pay for their tickets TO Lebanon? No, so why pay for their tickets out. The government is not refusing anyone and they are letting them know what it costs up front. They will also issue a voucher and a loan for those who can not afford it. Would an airline do that? I think not.
Problem is, we have the same mentality that they had in New Orleans, the federal government will swoop in and save me. People should be responsible for themselves.
The US did not wait to evacuate. They had to plan things. You do not just send vehicles into a war without coordinating or they become targets. We have to make sure we do not get the civilians killed so we plan. Once again the New Orleans mentality that the government should be there in an instant to take care of me.
The fact is, those folks are expatriated and they were not sent by the government. They should have to pay the feds for their trip out just as they would an airline.
on July 18, 2006 at 11:01 am
n. mallory said:
Oh, please, those people are not all expatriated. In fact, I was listening this morning to the news talking about military personell who had just been airlifted out. There have been many reports of Americans there on business, visiting relatives, etc. Those are the people I’m worried about. If they had been taken hostage, would we be sending them a rescue bill?
And, yes, the US did wait to evacuate. They weren’t planning things. More than likely, they didn’t expect things to last this long or go this far.
on July 18, 2006 at 11:37 am
Big Dog said:
You are entitled to your opinion. The facts are, the people are there of their own accord and they should pay their way home. As I stated, if the airport was open they would be paying for airline tickets, should the US reimburse them for those?
If you drive on vacation or business to California and your car breaks down or a riot breaks out, should the government pay for you to get home?
It is a matter of personal responsibility.
Were the military personnel there on government business or was it personal travel? That makes a difference. If the people there are on business then why does their company not pay their way out?
It is a typical mentality. People somehow think that government should bail them out of every mess. This is a voluntary evacuation. If they ordered the people out then they would have a responsibility to pay their way.
You can not evacuate people overnight. How is it people can excuse Welfare Ray Nagin becasue he did not evacuate people when he had days of notice but hold the US accountable for being there immediately? We do not have planes and ships just sitting around waiting for people to need help. It takes time and planning. The problem with Lebanon is what, a week old, and people are getting out. They have been for 3 days. A 4 day lag is not bad.
on July 20, 2006 at 11:13 am
RVIO said:
BD, Some day, who knows when, but some day, you will find yourself in a situation where you are in danger, where you are in fact helpless, and perhaps then you will realise that neither you nor god are the
exclusive arbiters of yor own destiny, but that the network of
relationships between you and other human beings (no matter how much you resent it) is also of significance in presenting you with viable, positive, helpful options in such moments. Your “logical” standpoint extends also to the idea that everyone else would be happy if you would have the courage of your convictions and STOP MOANING about those seeking help and shut up - after all, its not your fault those people chose to live in a war zone, and hey, it snot your responsibility to take ‘em out either, unless of course they pay. some day, your chickens will come home to roost and you will repent or find god or whatever.. just following the phases the neo-american world view is bult on - guns’n'god. No (wo)man is an island, no matter what you chose to pretend to yourself.
on July 20, 2006 at 11:23 am
n. mallory said:
RVIO - You reminded me of my very conservative Repub friend who just about this time last year was making insinuations about how the Red Cross was communist, etc. Then Hurricane Katrina hit. Immediately afterward and up until today, he and his fiancee sing the praises of Red Cross who was there for them with the government was not.
He’s of course forgot how he insulted the Red Cross just shortly before despite knowing my mother was heavily involved with that charity.
So, when it does come down to it, your high and mighty convictions often change when you’re faced with the actual experience yourself.
As a friend of mine recently, if inacurately said: “Don’t judge a book until you’ve walked a mile in its shoes.”
on July 20, 2006 at 2:00 pm
Big Dog said:
Just to make it clear to the babbling Brook (RVIO), these people are in a situation in which they need help, sure. Why is it too much to ask them to reimburse for their travel. As for me, Shut Up, I think not MY TAX DOLLARS PAY FOR THIS SO I AM AFFECTED. I have the courage of my convictions and God knows my destiny. No, it is not my responsibility to take them out, I retired from that business.
And if I am ever in a situation where I need to be rescued I will pay the travel costs to get home. If I don’t have the money on me I will sign a voucher to pay it back when I get home. You have the Katrina mentality that the government is suppose to save you from all your woes. News Flash: The government can not, nor should it, jump in to all the problems in people’s lives to save them whenever something goes wrong. If they come to help, you pay your way.
You can insult me all you want but no one has had the answer to the basic question I posed. If the airport were open and people had to fly out would the government be required to pay for their tickets or should the airlines give them a free ride?
It is easy for you to sit back and criticize my opinion and to insult me. But if it involves me or my family I will pay whatever it costs and if I have to take out a loan or work 10 jobs I will do so. That is the difference between slugs who want the government to wipe their ass for them and the rest who can accomplish this on thier own.
on July 20, 2006 at 2:11 pm
n. mallory said:
If the airport was open, it would be a different story, but it’s not open.
Here’s the thing. It’s my tax dollars too and I expect this country to protect me and to help me when I am in danger. That’s where I want my tax money to go. If it were up to me, my tax dollars wouldn’t be going to fund a war I didn’t support to begin with. So, think of it this way, I’m pre-paying for my rescue from a natural disaster or terrorist attack should I ever need it.
Sometimes, it’s not a matter of whether or not the government is required to do something or has to do something but whether or not it’s the right thing to do. In this case, rescuing it’s citizens from a war zone and not adding to the anxiety or slowness of the process is the right thing to do.
on July 20, 2006 at 6:31 pm
n. mallory said:
And of course, the other big difference between if they could have got on an airliner is that they would have at least known how much the commercial airplane tickets cost to get them out of Beruit…the U.S. was making them sign blank promisary notes…a favor to be named at a later date.
Really can the government be trusted to name a fair price after the fact when it’s billing soldiers for damaged and lost field equipment while they’re recovering in hospitals from battle injuries?
on July 20, 2006 at 11:24 pm
Big Dog said:
Let me help you because you obviously have no experience in this. Number one, soldiers are charged for gear when they return and it does not return with them because the guy on this end does not know what happened to it. When they find out it is a battle loss they forget the charges. There are a few, and I mean a few out of hundreds of thousands where there is a problem getting the issue dropped.
As for the price of tickets. The US told people the approximate cost. This information is also available in the Joint Travel Regulation. The government can not make up prices, they have a set price for travel and they use those prices, so the cost to fly from California to New York is the same for all government travelers. Therefore, the BLANK promissary note will contain the government cost of travel for the trip (which is usually cheaper than airline tickets for the regular public).
What you should ask is can the government trust the average American who lives above his means and buys evertyhing on credit and has NO savings to pay for the ticket once they are safely home?
And your earlier post indicates that you expect your country to protect you. That is nice, then stay in it. When you travel to potential war zones you can get put in danger. When I was overseas we had an evacuation plan in the event of an emergency and we had a back-up. Most of the people who left probably did not have any clue what to do. PPPPPP. Remember that and you will do well.
And the vouchers did not add to the slowness of the process. Women lugging kids, all the baggage (God forbid you forget some clothes) and people not being organized is what slows things down. Oh, and people trying to keep from getting the evacuees shot at.
As for you prepaying for your rescue. That is fine. As for me, I use very few government services and I figure my gas tax pays for the roads so just let me have all my tax money back. I will pay my own way when I need to be rescued (which is unlikely to happen). And if the terror attack happens at home your rescue is paid for. The law cobvers evacuation from overseas locations.
It is always better when people understand the process. I think it is great you do not trust the government to follow a written rule as to how much to charge but you trust them to rescue you. Quite a study in contrast.
I have a new idea for the law that requires them to charge. All Americans must sign a paper before they travel overseas. The paper says that if you need to be rescued you will pay the travel cost and if you don’t sign it you may not leave the country. Then we would stop having people crying. We would not have a bunch of people who do not appreciate that people are putting their lives on the line to save them and are more concerned aboout whether they will have to delay buying their next luxury.
on July 21, 2006 at 8:58 am
n. mallory said:
First of all, you have absolutely no compassion.
Second, you have obviously been paying no attention or as usual, you are bound and determined not to see what you don’t want to. You are so ready to condemn those in need as “crying” and “whining” that you refuse to see that government process itself is flawed and part of the problem and adding to the distress. If you just pay attention to some of that “crying” and “whining”, you’ll hear in their stories that it’s not all about luggage and children and cost but about not knowing what’s going on and red tape and all sorts of other things.
Some of the evacuees who are just now arriving back home are telling their stories of what happened early in the week, before those transportation fees were waved — a Maine forest ranger who was over there on some sort of business working the Lebanon government was forced to sign a blank promisary note before he could board the U.S. helicopter out of there; however, according to him, he wasn’t given any of that information you spelled out above — just told to do it or be left behind. It’s that kind of behavior and attitude in a time of crisis that I’m concerned about. That cannot help the already anxious.
You’re so sure of yourself and that’s fine, but what about those who aren’t? Have a little compassion. Not everyone has a military background or a heart of stone.
on July 21, 2006 at 5:19 pm
Big Dog said:
Thanks for the compliments. I have plenty of compassion. Now, this might be a true story and it is one story out of 25,000. Perhaps we could find all the good stories. The flaw in the logic is the assumption that government should be there for everything and then do things the way you want. It does not always work that way.
Many of the evacuees are coming into mu home state and they are being given free room and board (up to 60 days if they need it) and cell phones or calling cards to make calls to loved ones. This is not required by the government but it is an act of compassion. I don’t hear anyone saying “Oh no, we should have to pay for this.” I don’t hear anyone saying that it is wrong to give away the free items to help out people because this is a decision that was made just like the decision to waive the fees. The point is, if there is a requirement then people should follow it.
How about the businesses that the people are there working for. Maybe they can pay.
Amazing that when there is a rule people complain. I just want the rules followed…
on July 21, 2006 at 7:16 pm
n. mallory said:
Well, let’s talk about following the rules…I was going to make a separate post about this, but I’ll put it here. There was a woman on DemocracyNow! earlier who has been trying to get out all week. She has a young daughter and they were there for the summer visiting family — they go every year. They would have left on their own ticket had the airport been operational.
She tried doing what she was supposed to do by signing up for the evacuation on the web, but there was no confirmation; so she tried to contact the Embassy. That took several days. When she finally got through to the Embassy, a man on the phone told her there were too many people for him to confirm her family over the phone so she should send an email and hung up on her.
So she tried email, but when she received no response, she tried the phone again, which again took days. When she finally got through again, the woman on the phone told her that they are no longer using that method. Now you should just show up and hope you get to go.
How can they follow the rules if the rules are in flux and no one is telling them what the changes are? You’re always talking about what Ray Nagin should have done, etc., well, the US Embassy and the US government isn’t doing much better in Lebanon. The other countries seem to be doing a much better job, which makes me wonder why are they better capable of taking care of their own people than we are of taking care of our own people when we’re supposed to be the biggest, most powerful country in the world?
on July 21, 2006 at 7:48 pm
Big Dog said:
Since you brought it up. I have seen no evidence that anyone is doing this any better though most countries have fewer people to rescue. Also, we know that Hezbollah would love to sink a ship with AMERICANS on it. They pretty much don’t care about other countries because of their hatred for us.
I say a lot about Ray Nagin and he was not in the middle of a war. I know if I ran the city it would have gone better, or at least all the buses would have been used, but that is another story.
This woman had some problems. I guess you think a staff of 20-30 people in the Embassy is able to handle this onslaught and get everything right.
I just wish the US would have swooped in with a few ocean liners and whatever else was needed to haul out 25,000 and picked them up. Of course there is nothing large enough to do that except maybe an aircraft carrier and that would have been a provocative move. Of course, if the US rushed in and then a ship full of Americans got blown out of the water you would bitch and moan that the most powerful nation in the world should have been more careful.
It is a no win situation with this debate. I keep hearing all these little nit-noid problems that are always going to happen when something this big is going on. Christ, how many days did it take to rescuse half as many people from New Orleans. I guess if you have never been involved in an operation this size you just don’t understand the complexity. Add shooting and it gets worse.
But let me end it here. You are right. The US is evil and does not care about its people. We are a bad nation that everyone hates. And yet, we have the greatest technology in the world and people are dying to get in but very few, even you, are requesting to leave. I guess people want to live in a bad nation that can’t do anything right. The unfortunate thing is the guy who could have figured it all out was aborted by his mother.