Comments on: The Trouble With Hell http://nmallory.exit-23.net/20060224/the-trouble-with-hell & Other Discombobulated Thoughts Fri, 09 Jan 2009 11:49:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.3 By: Tess http://nmallory.exit-23.net/20060224/the-trouble-with-hell#comment-2201 Tess Wed, 10 May 2006 08:20:07 +0000 http://nmallory.exit-23.net/20060224/the-trouble-with-hell#comment-2201 Here's an interesting take on this: Orthodox Christians (as in Eastern) believe that Heaven and Hell are essentially the same place. God never sentences people to hell. God is not in the condemning business. God's love is an all consuming fire and we are smack dab in the presence of that fire once we leave this world. For people bent on resisting love, the fire is torturous, but not because God is punishing them. The more we embrace God, which is our divine origin anyway, the more that fire is a fire of warmth and joy. It's all in our perception. And our lives, attitudes, actions color our perception, just the way they do on earth. This heaven/hell thing drove me crazy for years. I think I'm at peace with it now, though I'll be a lifetime coming to know God in a truly intimate way. Tess Here’s an interesting take on this: Orthodox Christians (as in Eastern) believe that Heaven and Hell are essentially the same place. God never sentences people to hell. God is not in the condemning business. God’s love is an all consuming fire and we are smack dab in the presence of that fire once we leave this world. For people bent on resisting love, the fire is torturous, but not because God is punishing them. The more we embrace God, which is our divine origin anyway, the more that fire is a fire of warmth and joy. It’s all in our perception. And our lives, attitudes, actions color our perception, just the way they do on earth.
This heaven/hell thing drove me crazy for years. I think I’m at peace with it now, though I’ll be a lifetime coming to know God in a truly intimate way.
Tess

]]> By: Mena http://nmallory.exit-23.net/20060224/the-trouble-with-hell#comment-5798 Mena Mon, 24 Jul 2006 05:47:43 +0000 http://nmallory.exit-23.net/20060224/the-trouble-with-hell#comment-5798 I believe similarly to Tess. Think of it this way: God is Love, and we all want love, to be loved and to love. This is what we're made for. Love is our greatest ability and joy, and God actually IS love. He made us to be with Him, in His image, for Him. We belong with Him (with Love). We are all seeking love and acceptance on this earth and we can find it in Him. Because He loves us so much, He gives us a guide to help us stay as happy as we can be on earth. Accepting that we're just not going to always be happy here (because God is in His Heaven and we can't see Him face to face yet), we seek love and become confused -- is it candy? is it sex? is love a nice happy feeling? is love when someone says "I love you"? All of those things are ephemeral -- but God isn't. God is Love and is forever, unconditional and eternal. He wants our obedience (even when sometimes what He wants doesn't make sense to us) because through our obedience we will be closer to Him and know Him more. And technically we WANT that because we want love. So where does hell come in? Well, Hell is the absolute absence of love. Hell is where one is utterly obsessed with one's own self (love does not look inward, but moves and shares outward). Hell is lonely and is a separation from Love. Imagine someone you care for most in the world. Someone you love as much as you ever have. Now imagine that they don't want anything to do with you and think you're an idiot. Imagine they badmouth you or worse, ignore you. They cut you off. The pain you feel at this betrayal, the LOSS, is a little bit of hell. People have committed suicide because they were dumped by someone they loved -- that's how strong the loss is. It is despair. God doesn't want any of us to tell Him we don't want or need Him, but we do that in varying degrees in our lifetimes. My mom says that it's not one sin that puts a person in hell, it's a life of sin, a mindset. The person has CHOSEN to leave God, and in essence they have chosen to turn their backs on LOVE. Love freely and completely given, and love that is stronger than any human can possibly produce -- and they give it up. Why? I think God understands our innate selfishness and our frailties. His justice is tempered by His great MERCY. You have to REALLY not want anything to do with Him, because logically after you die, if you spent your life not wanting anything to do with God then why would you be upset about an eternity without Him? People simply are very confused about what LOVE is. The media defines it as physical pleasures and hedonism, but if you look at some of the happiest people they're going to be those who aren't taking but GIVING. Jesus was all about giving and serving. The devil's all about feeding the earthly form and its desires without moderation , compassion or empathy for others. So what happens to babies and people who never knew Jesus etc.? My belief is that everyone is judged individually. We are all given chances to accept God. Some of us have a lifetime of chances because as the Bible says, God does not want to lose ANY of us. He loves every single one of us no matter what. He doesn't want us separated from Him (in hell) -- He is always trying to draw us closer to Him. They say that God is only as far away as the end of your fingertips because that's as far away as you can push Him. I don't think you should worry too much about these things because all you really need to do is love God with all your heart and soul and ability and love others as yourself. Trust that He will take care of His own, those people who want Him. He knows what He is doing. The sad thing is that you and many other people start to think of God as a meanie, an enemy, a cruel deity who makes demands out of malice -- that's not who He is. He is our Father and as such He may ask us to do things we don't want to or that we think don't make sense. But if we believe that God is all powerful, we have to accept that WE AREN'T. So it's best to follow His advice instead of our own:) He is God, after all. If He really didn't know what He was doing then why would we worship Him? It's about faith and trust. He made you, knows you, loves you. When you mess up, you go to Him and ask forgiveness and ask for guidance. It's really the best we can do, and I don't think He asks for more than that. God bless you!:) I believe similarly to Tess. Think of it this way:

God is Love, and we all want love, to be loved and to love. This is what we’re made for. Love is our greatest ability and joy, and God actually IS love. He made us to be with Him, in His image, for Him. We belong with Him (with Love). We are all seeking love and acceptance on this earth and we can find it in Him.

Because He loves us so much, He gives us a guide to help us stay as happy as we can be on earth. Accepting that we’re just not going to always be happy here (because God is in His Heaven and we can’t see Him face to face yet), we seek love and become confused — is it candy? is it sex? is love a nice happy feeling? is love when someone says “I love you”? All of those things are ephemeral — but God isn’t. God is Love and is forever, unconditional and eternal. He wants our obedience (even when sometimes what He wants doesn’t make sense to us) because through our obedience we will be closer to Him and know Him more. And technically we WANT that because we want love.

So where does hell come in? Well, Hell is the absolute absence of love. Hell is where one is utterly obsessed with one’s own self (love does not look inward, but moves and shares outward). Hell is lonely and is a separation from Love.

Imagine someone you care for most in the world. Someone you love as much as you ever have. Now imagine that they don’t want anything to do with you and think you’re an idiot. Imagine they badmouth you or worse, ignore you. They cut you off. The pain you feel at this betrayal, the LOSS, is a little bit of hell. People have committed suicide because they were dumped by someone they loved — that’s how strong the loss is. It is despair.

God doesn’t want any of us to tell Him we don’t want or need Him, but we do that in varying degrees in our lifetimes. My mom says that it’s not one sin that puts a person in hell, it’s a life of sin, a mindset. The person has CHOSEN to leave God, and in essence they have chosen to turn their backs on LOVE. Love freely and completely given, and love that is stronger than any human can possibly produce — and they give it up. Why?

I think God understands our innate selfishness and our frailties. His justice is tempered by His great MERCY. You have to REALLY not want anything to do with Him, because logically after you die, if you spent your life not wanting anything to do with God then why would you be upset about an eternity without Him?

People simply are very confused about what LOVE is. The media defines it as physical pleasures and hedonism, but if you look at some of the happiest people they’re going to be those who aren’t taking but GIVING. Jesus was all about giving and serving. The devil’s all about feeding the earthly form and its desires without moderation , compassion or empathy for others.

So what happens to babies and people who never knew Jesus etc.? My belief is that everyone is judged individually. We are all given chances to accept God. Some of us have a lifetime of chances because as the Bible says, God does not want to lose ANY of us. He loves every single one of us no matter what. He doesn’t want us separated from Him (in hell) — He is always trying to draw us closer to Him.

They say that God is only as far away as the end of your fingertips because that’s as far away as you can push Him.

I don’t think you should worry too much about these things because all you really need to do is love God with all your heart and soul and ability and love others as yourself. Trust that He will take care of His own, those people who want Him. He knows what He is doing.

The sad thing is that you and many other people start to think of God as a meanie, an enemy, a cruel deity who makes demands out of malice — that’s not who He is. He is our Father and as such He may ask us to do things we don’t want to or that we think don’t make sense. But if we believe that God is all powerful, we have to accept that WE AREN’T. So it’s best to follow His advice instead of our own:) He is God, after all. If He really didn’t know what He was doing then why would we worship Him? It’s about faith and trust. He made you, knows you, loves you. When you mess up, you go to Him and ask forgiveness and ask for guidance. It’s really the best we can do, and I don’t think He asks for more than that.

God bless you!:)

]]> By: n. mallory http://nmallory.exit-23.net/20060224/the-trouble-with-hell#comment-5806 n. mallory Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:12:14 +0000 http://nmallory.exit-23.net/20060224/the-trouble-with-hell#comment-5806 <blockquote>The sad thing is that you and many other people start to think of God as a meanie, an enemy, a cruel deity who makes demands out of malice</blockquote> I don't believe in a God who is a "meanie, an enemie, or a cruel deity". That's why I struggle so much with the concept of Hell and punishment. It's also why I don't understand people who go to war or who judge or hate in the name of God. I do appreciate what you've written here. It's given me quite a bit to think about. Hell is something that's bothered me since I was a child in Sunday school.

The sad thing is that you and many other people start to think of God as a meanie, an enemy, a cruel deity who makes demands out of malice

I don’t believe in a God who is a “meanie, an enemie, or a cruel deity”. That’s why I struggle so much with the concept of Hell and punishment. It’s also why I don’t understand people who go to war or who judge or hate in the name of God.

I do appreciate what you’ve written here. It’s given me quite a bit to think about. Hell is something that’s bothered me since I was a child in Sunday school.

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