Happily In The Middle Politically And Tired Of The Lemmings
I must say that in recent weeks, following the Hurricane Katrina catastrophe, I have felt more and more proud of the fact that I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I am an Independent and happy to be unaffiliated with any party and it’s followers that resorts to finger-pointing and name calling and brainwashing of the masses — and trust me, it’s clear to me that both parties are on those bandwagons with their lemmings.
I’m so tired of the websites and the people who think that all Democrats are evil and all Republicans are angels or vice versa.
Guess what? None of them are innocent. Guess what? There’s scandals on both sides.
And I’m tired of Republicans who think that nothing their politicians could do be worse than a former President having consensual sex in the White House and then lying about it in public like any red-blooded American male would. I’m tired of Democrats who keep whining about Bush stealing the election in 2000.
Guess what? The Republicans have had plenty of their own sex scandals and plenty of them denied and covered up. Guess what? There’s nothing we can do about the 2000 election. Bush finished those four years. They’ve gone. Past.
In fact, all of that is past.
I’m just plain tired of it all…and possibly it’s frustration about what’s going on in my childhood hometown. I’m tired of watching the mess get worse while politicians in both parties play games and try to blame each other for everything, including the Original Sin…and their lemmings are right there on the bandwagon, spouting what they are sure are truths and denying their party’s fault in anything. What I’d like to find is someone on either side who can admit that their party and their politicians are not perfect and in fact, give equal reporting to the bad things their party does as well as the bad things the other party does.
tags: politics, Independent, Hurricane Katrina, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, 2004 election
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on September 15, 2005 at 3:51 pm
Big Dog said:
While I agree with the premise I say that it is easy to find more at fault with the other side (regardless of which other it is) because you beliefs would tend to run more closely with your party. I have stated on many occasions that there were problems all the way down the line. I just feel that all this pointing at the top is not going to work without recognizing the failures at the bottom.
As for Clinton and the lie. You need to make a distinction. Yes, many people from both parties have done what he did with regard to sex and lying. Clinton lied under oath to cover it up and that is a crime. When Nixon lied to cover up the break in his rivals drew up articles of impeachment. something Hillary Clinton was part of and feels was good. She felt differently when it was her hubby.
When you make the points you do it would be helpful to remember the context in which people make the argument. It is not about sex or lying, it is about lying under oath.
As far as the rest, many people are to blame but to have unrealistic expectations from the federal government is no reason to lay blame on them for things out of their control.
on September 15, 2005 at 9:57 pm
n. mallory said:
Obviously you’ve never been in a political debate where someone suddenly changes the subject with “Well, at least Bush never had sex in the Oval Office!”
I’m still trying to figure out why anyone was asking Clinton whether or not he had sex with Monica while he was under oath. What was the point of that anyway? Whatever happened to the investigation into their business practices and finances?
All you see is the lie. You don’t question the point of it all. I’m trying to look at the bigger picture, but all some people can see is the lie and the sex.
And when was the last time you were asked about your sex life in a job review? And, yes, I understand that’s simplifying it but since it’s unlikely you’ll be giving testimony about your sex life before a Congressional committee, that’s the best comparrison I have.
In fact, it would be illegal for my boss to ask me about my sex life. Heck, they aren’t even supposed to ask if I’m married in a job interview.
Personally as long as he gets the job done, I don’t care who my President has secret consentual sex with.
No, I’m not happy he had to lie, but of the things he had to lie about, having consentual sex is among the least I care about.
And maybe I’m still a little bitter that because of the investigation, Louisiana lost a good Republican Congressman who had to step down or be a hypocrite — now there’s a decent politician, despite his sex scandal.
on September 15, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Big Dog said:
Well I don’t just see the lie. This was part of an investigation and the reason he was asked was because Paula Jones made accusations. There was the whole Linda Tripp ordeal. It was part of a big investigation.
I think it shows a lack of character to say that as long as he gets the job done who cares who he has consensual sex with. He was a married man having a relationship at work with a subordinate. Many private businessmen get fired sued or both for just such a thing.
Why was Nixon’s (I know it was before your time) lie so bad it required articles of impeachment but Clinton’s lie under oath did not. Our elected representatives are supposed to exercise their duties fairly.
No I doubt I was in an office where anyone changes the subject with the bush never had sex in the oval office. I have been in one where he lied about WMD and he hates black people. People make stupid arguments all the time, that does not negate the fact that lying under oath violates the law. If you were caught doing that you would go to jail.
As a matter of record I do not just see the lie. I see a pattern of abuse, lies, and blatant disregard for the rule of law. That might be something you admire in a President but I think that the person who represents our country should at least have a high moral character.
If Clinton had done this in his residence (not his office) and did not lie about it under oath, it would be a matter for him and his wife. Though he would still face public scrutiny, because he is after all, a public figure.
on September 15, 2005 at 11:26 pm
Big Dog said:
Oh BTW, when I enlisted in the Army they asked me if I had ever engaged in homosexual behavior. I don’t think anyone else has asked me about my sex life in an interview. Though I have never been investigated by a grand jury or special prosecutor for breaking the law. I would imagine if I were in such a circumstance, and a number of women were alleging that I had sexually harassed them (and it had bearing on the case) they would ask about it.
Since he met those standards, he was asked.
on September 16, 2005 at 6:47 am
n. mallory said:
Well, first of all, the difference between Nixon’s lie and Clinton’s lie is that Nixon was lying about something criminal to begin with.
Second:
And you don’t see a pattern of abuse, lies, and blatand disregard for the rule of law in the current administration at all?
Also, I am a huge fan of don’t ask, don’t tell, but I also think the military’s policy on homosexuality is discrimination and outright wrong.
on September 16, 2005 at 8:42 am
Big Dog said:
Fortunately, you do not run the military. I do not see a pattern of lies and abuse. I see people who tell us what they are going to do and do it. I also see a lot of people who look at everything as a lie just because the President said it.
I am not sure, but I believe that having sex with a subordinate while at work is a crime under federal guidelines of sexual harassment. Regardless, they were investigating other alleged crimes in the Clinton era and this came to light when all the women started coming out of the closet. I am also pretty sure adultery is a civil offense, and a crime in some states.
Fact is if lying by the President is an impeachable offense then it is so for all Presidents. You can not have it both ways. Nixon did not order or commit the crime. He lied about some of the particlars but the left was really out to get him.
While I agree that most polkiticians are not exactly truthful, I find it difficult to believe that people rationalize behavior that they would not accept from a co-worker or from someone they dislike. Many good people have been forced out of jobs because of this very thing. Why would he be any different except for partisanship?
on September 17, 2005 at 4:04 pm
n. mallory said:
You’re very naive if you don’t think this administration hasn’t abused their power — they’re particularly bad about crony-ism, don’t you think?
What about the secrecy? What about the ever-changing reasons for invading Iraq?
What about the fact that until Katrina, the buck never stopped anywhere near the White House when things went wrong? In fact, this administration seems to be in constant denial that things aren’t anything but a uptopia.
And let me tell you, it’s definitely not uptopia out here in the real world.
on September 18, 2005 at 2:42 pm
Big Dog said:
Well Katrina was not a federal problem. It was the problem of the Mayor you love so much and the governor who couldn’t lead a group of people out of a burning building.
Crony-ism exists in all level of government in all administrations. I do not think this administration has abused power any more than any other administration. We have secrecy for a reason, so dumb asses don’t tell the enemy what we are doing. The first reasons for invading Iraq were genuine despite uninformed people insisting idiotic things like Hussein did not have WMD or that we lied. We used intelligence from many other countries. The intent was good and there was no lie despite the uninformed and their insistance that the DSM is a smoking gun, it’s not.
The world is not a utopian adventure. It never has been and it never will. It will especially not be any better as long as people think the government is responsible for wiping their butts. People complain about how bad it is and they can’t afford anything yet they buy new laptops, desktops, ipods, Palm Pilots, clothes that cost a fortune, have web sites, own cars, and have a job.
It is not as bad as people make it. Utopia, no. but neither is it as bad as people would have us believe.
I am naive? Good one.
on September 19, 2005 at 2:20 pm
n. mallory said:
I do love Ray Naggin. I think he’s the best Mayor New Orleans has seen in ages, but at least I can see he’s made some mistakes.
And while I do have a new laptop (which I technically need for my job), a Palm Pilot, an iPod mini, websites, a 10 year old paid-for car (that will have to be replaced in the next year), an unexpensive wardrobe, and a well-paying job (the first in my life and after 10 years of being underpaid and unappreciated, I’ve earned it), I can remember what it was like to have to dig through the sofa or collect alumninum cans for enough money to eat for the day. I remember what it was like to be unemployed and not know where my next paycheck came from. I know people that before Katrina who were living minimum wage paycheck to minimum wage paycheck or who couldn’t find work in their field that 10 years ago we were told was the career of the future. Most of my friends have been unemployed at some point over the last five years for different amounts of time. So I definitely have an idea of what it’s like out there beyond my laptop.
Of course, many of my friends now have no homes or jobs and they’re being treated like crap by FEMA and other government organizations, even Red Cross, which I have a decided bias towards, is chaotic at the moment.
As for the WMD, I’m not going to argue with you. Neither of us is going to agree with the other and quite frankly I’ve had enough migraines the last few days without the virtual banging my head against a brick wall. My point is that you like many Republicans can’t even fathom that this Administration might lie or abuse their power and that makes you naive.
And, by the way, if the Clinton investigation had actually proven something with Paula Jones…then I’d be a little angrier. Sexual Harrassment is one thing; consensual sex is something else, in my humble opinion.